I Was Never Pigeonholed

Interview by Abbi-Hope Jihye Park

Where is your hometown?
I would say Los Angeles is my hometown. I was born in Seoul, Korea and I lived there until I was eight years old. But I’ve been here [in Los Angeles] for 30 plus — almost 40 years. My parents did move back to Korea, so I still have a lot of family ties in Korea. But, I consider Los Angeles as my hometown.

Why did your parents move back to Korea?
They moved back to Korea for economic reasons at the time. There were different trade quotas and businesses opening up in Asia, so it was more profitable to move back.

What are your thoughts on Koreatown?
For me, Koreatown is like my home base. Even though I never lived in Koreatown as a child, we came here [to Koreatown] to do our weekend shopping and go to church. I just remember spending a lot of time on the weekend in Koreatown, so now that I’m living here for a little bit, it’s kind of funny to walk down on Western Avenue from Beverly [Boulevard] to Olympic [Boulevard]. I have memories on each block.

Can you tell me more about your experience immigrating to the United States as a young person? Do you think your immigration experience was different from that of your parents?
I think I was in third grade at the time. You just don’t process that much; it was just the way it was. My immigrant story is very similar to the rest of my 1.5-generation Korean American friends. 

I think we had to balance living Korean culture and life on the weekends or when we were with our families, but having this American identity from Monday to Friday. I understand having to deal with dual identity and with the extremes of one culture versus the other.

Did growing up in the United States prevent you from accepting your [Korean] culture?
I’m sure, as a young person or as a teenager growing up, there were parts of me that rejected some sort of “Koreanness,” in order to pursue assimilating into society or a certain culture. I’m sure there was a lot of that. I mean it’s kind of hard to articulate now, because even though I live a very, very “Western life” — at the core, my basic schooling was very strongly Korean, and it’s because my parents are very Korean. I spoke Korean at home, even though outside of my home, I felt very assimilated into Western culture. Even the way I speak is very American, so I definitely identify a lot of myself with that. Being Korean is always hard.

What are your thoughts on the rise of anti-Asian violence [during the pandemic]?
Honestly, I think I’ve been really lucky in the sense that I don’t live in an area where people are blind to Asians. You know? I live in Koreatown. There are so many more Asians and I feel that the non-Asians I run into are trying to be more of an ally. I haven’t personally experienced any rising Asian hate, but it sounds like it’s happening more to elders. I’m definitely vigilant of it. It’s just another way for them to demonize an ethnic minority. But for some reason, Asians are now being targeted as problematic, like the ethnic minority was at fault.

You said you haven’t experienced any Asian hate crimes during the pandemic.
Have you personally experienced any racial discrimination while living in America?
I’ve thought about this a lot. I feel like I’ve been very, very fortunate in my life that I really haven’t faced, you know, in-your-face racism. Of course, I have received offhand comments, like someone yelling “ching chong” going down that street. Actually more than anything, it’s always a little bit of that subtle and passive racism like, “Where are you from? Are you from China?” and things like that.

Especially in the ’80s and ’90s when it was appropriate to say, “Are you Oriental?” or “What part of Asia [are you from]?” Or assuming that you’re not from here, like, “Oh, where are you really from?” It’s like you don’t really belong here. So that was the type of racism that I encountered. I was fortunate enough to not experience right in-front-of-your-face [racism] like, “Oh no, you can’t do this because you’re Asian.” I’ve been able to avoid most of that kind of behavior. 

What has been constant are microaggressions, as we like to say now — subtle [behavior]. But, growing up — this is all just new to all of us. I’m so happy that your generation is growing up with awareness of these things, because for us it was just accepted as part of culture. People were allowed to say that. 

People were allowed to call us “chinks.” We allowed it because we didn’t know how to speak up or do otherwise. I think it’s important that we are all part of these social justice movements. We all need to help each other.

What do you think it means to be American?
I feel lucky and grateful that I have a Korean culture to ground me because I don’t know if I feel fully American — maybe because I wasn’t born here. I don’t know if
I’d be comfortable calling myself American. I think I’m more comfortable calling myself Korean American. I want that to be the definition of me.

My Korean American identity is honestly one of the reasons I wanted to do this [interview]. America is a melting pot. There may be no Indigenous culture except the Indigenous people who were here; I mean that’s the real American culture if we want to say that. But obviously, American culture has taken on a whole new form and it’s still in-the-making. 

When you think about French culture or Italian culture, certain things are set in stone like the Eiffel Tower. You don’t really have that with American culture, and I don’t think there ever will be. I think the definition of American culture is completely different cultures from all over the world coming together. One of the reasons I wanted to do this is because I want my daughter to know that all of this [history about the garment industry in the United States] is the beginning of Korean culture, which is ultimately American culture. 

I feel it’s very important that we study the garment industry, because ultimately I feel like because of the economic boom, it really supported Los Angeles as a burgeoning Koreatown which only brought more Koreans. The garment industry economic boom really supported Koreatown. 

Having this in L.A. really anchored Korean culture in American culture, because without Los Angeles, we wouldn’t have this huge Korean American culture population here.

Do you work in Koreatown?
I do not. There’s a lot of businesses, like restaurants, but not so much fashion [businesses]. The fashion offices and warehouses are all down on the east side.

What do you do in fashion?
I’ve had various positions, but what I do is import fabric and garments. I work with bigger manufacturing companies who buy fabric. The manufacturing companies get their clothing usually made in China or Mexico, and then they ship it to the big stores.

How did you start working in the garment industry?
I consider myself second-generation in the garment industry. My dad worked in textiles in Korea, and he brought his skills over and had a huge manufacturing plant here in the ’80s and ’90s. But in the 2000s — due to some governmental policies and whatnot — our business moved to Korea. We still had our clients, it’s just that we started importing instead of manufacturing.

What is your typical day at work when you’re importing fabric?
Just a lot of office work and paperwork. In the morning, I’m checking emails, making sure everything is okay, and then seeing if I’m getting any packages in from Korea — which could include anything from new designs to getting certain colors, swatches, or quality approvals. Then, I get those packages to the customers and clients and have meetings with them. That happens during the day and then to kind of finish off the day, I have to communicate with my Korean office. This was all before the pandemic, so a lot of appointments now are not in-person. I just drop stuff off or I send them things and do updates over Zoom or by email now.

Prior to the pandemic, what type of people were working with you?
I work a lot with designers, or the people who buy the fabric as they are the ones who are deciding what kind of fabric or colors they want to use. In the office, I work with administrative assistants — people in bookkeeping, data-entry, and reception. 

Did you find that community to be diverse?
I think it really depends on who your clients are. For example, I have one client who is Korean, Jewish Ashkenazi, and Caucasian. It’s just depending on who my client is. I think I’ve been fortunate because I was never pigeonholed into only working with Koreans or only working with certain people. I think growing up here and growing up with so many different cultures made me really adaptable. I can talk to anybody. 

I can talk to my fellow Korean Americans, or I can relate to Jewish customers. Having a very diverse background when I was growing up really kind of made me open to working with different types of people. And because I’ve always been in the manufacturing environment, I’ve always been very comfortable around any sort of community.

How has COVID-19 affected your business?
It impacted us right away. Because it started in China, and because I communicate with China and Korea on a daily basis, I knew that there was a serious COVID situation and people were being locked down. I knew by the time my brother had come to visit in early February [2020] — this is, you know, like, not even a month before the lockdown [in the United States].

We were talking about the pandemic, and we were already trying to take steps. We tried to reschedule or see how it was gonna hit the U.S. So once lockdown and quarantine started, obviously, everybody’s business was affected. All the retail stores — like your Ross, Macy’s, Dress Barn, all those places — were affected.

Since I import fabric, that affected deliveries. Sometimes, manufacturers stopped manufacturing what we had orders for. So we would miss a production of fabric, and by March and April of 2020, everything just stopped. The whole industry really stopped because everything is done by the consumers and retail shops, and nobody’s going to retail shops or nobody’s shopping, so what’s the point in shipping all of this. 

Then, a huge segment of the garment sector actually switched to producing masks locally, so a lot of the sewing and smaller sewing companies were busy trying
to make masks. It wasn’t the usual business of making clothing. It’s only after August or September 2020 that people were starting to try to produce more clothes as stores opened up. 

But it’s not until like now in the spring of 2021, everybody’s trying to get back on a regular track. So I mean, for the garment industry during COVID-19, there was change every minute, and it shifted so much of the industry that we’re still trying to recover to this day. 

Did you feel like customers weren’t online shopping as much either?
Yes, in the beginning. But later, the online market obviously thrived. That also shifted the market [toward an online business model]. Because — let’s say Ross or Macy’s — anticipate having stuff in their stores. In May, they order it so that by November or December it’s made in China — or the fabric we made in Korea is sent to be made into clothing in China or Mexico. There usually is that long of a lead time. But when the pandemic happened, everything closed. Nobody knew if they were going to get anything from Mexico or China. 

What is something you enjoy about working in the garment industry?
When I was younger, there were definitely different facets. Being in the fashion industry means that fashion is always changing. I’ve always been a part of the fashion industry; it was kind of natural and right. I have worked in different aspects of the fashion industry — not just manufacturing. I’ve gone out and worked in the PR department and the marketing department. So for me, that was always kind of exciting to be in the mix of the fashion world.

But right now, after a few decades of doing this work, I really enjoy how it gave me the opportunity to know another culture and have, on a day-to-day basis, a relationship with somebody outside of my usual circle of people. For example, there was always a Latinx community around me — from the top management to workers in the shipping and warehousing. I have relationships with my drivers or receptionists who worked with me for 30 years. I am not saying this is true for everybody, but for me, the ability to have these relationships with somebody outside of my usual social circle has been really, really amazing.

In that diverse community, is there a lot of racial conflict or racial hierarchy?
Definitely, especially in the garment industry. I think in L.A., there’s a lot of ethnic hierarchy when you see a lot of management and the owners. This is very apparent. If you go to Santee Alley, a lot of the people who are the front workers — or the faces [of the shops] — tend to be of the Latinx community, and the people who manage the stores tend to be Korean. So it does set up that racial division that upper management tends to be Korean, and the blue-collar workers to be Hispanic.

What were some challenges that you faced working in the garment industry?
A job is a job, so anything can be a challenge. I think, especially in your generation, with your exposure to the “Me Too” movement, women in workforces are really calling out toxic culture. The fashion industry is one of the worst places for toxic masculinity because the people with the decision-making power or the money were usually white males, or, in some instances, Korean males who kind of perpetuate that kind of culture too. 

Growing up — it’s just like in any industry — you kind of learn to just say, “Oh, yeah, like, that’s just how it is.” I think as this industry progresses, that will be one of the most interesting things for how the young generation takes control of that to create a friendlier work environment for people. Male toxicity — it doesn’t seem like it would happen in a fabulous fashion industry — but it was — and is — one of the biggest challenges of the fashion world. 

Personally, for me, the reason I decided to kind of move out of the industry is because I really want to support sustainability, and less waste. I felt that the way that the garment industry is going only supported wastefulness. Fast fashion has furthered that kind of wasteful mentality, and I just couldn’t get behind it anymore. That has been a big challenge, because you’re asking yourself “Do you want to make money?” or “Do you want to make changes for the environment?” That’s still a really hard push for me right now. I still have to try to make some sort of income while knowing that I am — or this industry is — still contributing to climate change and environmental impacts.

Do you think that customers have the right to know where their clothes came from, and how they are produced? Or do you think that companies have the right to keep that from the customers?
It might be the company’s right to not share it, because they don’t have to share if it’s not a public company. But at the same time, if they want to make themselves transparent, that would be great. But I also know — being on the cynical side — and maybe I shared this when I gave a lecture or shared this with you before, but the cynical side of me is that companies have PR companies who are going to tell them to say what they say, but not actually practice what they practice.

I know you guys did the research; you go to different brands, and there’s usually a huge mission statement about their commitment to sustainability and environmental activity. There could be a blog about that, but, how is it done? On what level? Are you really purchasing fabric or a thread that, you know, is made from recycled fabric? Or are you just saying it? 

There’s a really hard line between making money and doing all the sustainable practices, and still being cheap enough for consumers to buy. The cynical side of me says, “There needs to be a huge shift in the way the local economy — or maybe the circular economy — needs to be changed in order to have a really sustainable apparel industry.” Circular economy means finding a more efficient way
of recycling what we have and reusing it.

Do you find the industry to be secretive about working conditions, and how clothing is made in developing nations? 
Absolutely. There are labor laws and rules and regulations that companies must comply with and there’s huge quality control, but I think every company just tries to do the bare minimum. Check off the box just to say so. No one wants to spend any more money than they need to. 

For example, maybe they’re using this illegal sweatshop that uses workers who are minors, which is saving that company an extra 500 million dollars? Do we need to completely verify their age? Especially if it’s in [a country far away], for example, Bangladesh. Do we need to really, completely certify that 100 percent? They say, “Probably not.” A lot of companies are secretive. Nobody’s been super open and clear and honest about their ethical practices.

I think that there will always be some sort of fast fashion company, because not everyone has the luxury to buy clothing that’s made sustainably since it’s so much more expensive.
I agree with you. That, in itself, causes class division or income inequality.

Do you have any regrets about working in the garment industry? Would you have wanted to work somewhere else if you had the opportunity to?
That’s a great question. I always kind of knew that I was going to be in this business — one way or another. I lived in Hong Kong after graduating from college because I wanted to travel and be in Asia for a little bit. I had a corporate job in Hong Kong, and my employer at the time offered to sponsor a visa for me to stay longer and potentially the rest of my life. But my parents at the time, back in the ’90s and when I was in my mid 20s, needed me to come back to L.A. and be in the family business. 

My return was always kind of anticipated and planned. I think about, “What would have happened if I stayed in Hong Kong?” or “What if I had decided to pursue a corporate life instead of coming back to this family business?” Sometimes I think about what could have been, but it’s not a regret, it’s just kind of more of a what-could-have-been. There’s nothing to compare it to. I’m always a person where I think everything happened the way it was supposed to happen. I am happy that I can say that and relay this information to the next generation. 

Do you have lessons you would share to the younger generation about sustainability or the garment industry?
I don’t know if there’s any particular lesson I would share. I am very encouraged, if nothing else, by the younger generation, and how they are thinking about sustainability and thinking about an alternative type of industry. This was something that I never thought about. I think my generation always just wanted to kind of carry the torch, you know? I give you guys credit for wanting to think about something beyond just “the now.” Your generation is more woke. I feel hopeful more than anything. 

Just walking through downtown the other day [during our L.A. Fashion District tour] was actually nostalgic
and a little sad for me, because I know a time when that whole section of the city was very bustling. 

There was so much activity, and although it has been impacted because of COVID, it’s also that the business, itself, is changing. I wouldn’t say it looked totally different. 

It was more closed — a little sadder. But, I’m actually very excited to see what the next generation and the next chapter of the garment industry in L.A. will be and I’m excited because I think the younger generation will do something more important.

I went to the Jobber Market recently, and a lot of the shops had closed down. I felt sad, because a lot of these businesses were Asian-owned. I was wondering what happened to those business owners?
Yes, I think that the Korean-owned shops are probably not closed. They probably have another shop running somewhere else that’s a little cheaper. I was telling the students yesterday that even though a lot of the wholesale sales used to be happening in the shops, those sales have now shifted to the Internet. The Internet is making it much easier for these jobbers to list their inventory on boutique websites where you can just order online. They don’t even have to have retail. The business is changing in a lot of ways.

That’s a really practical idea, but I think online shopping and technology would be very difficult for elderly owners to understand. Do you think that’s true?
You’re right. Even for my generation, we can kind of keep up with it. But anybody older than my generation, that’s hard or they can’t do it. But you know, maybe the new wave of technology is also nature’s way of saying it’s time for you to retire. It’s nature’s way of saying, take a break.

One thing I want to add is that you don’t have to know what you want to do as a profession. I never ever ever asked my daughter, “What do you want to be?” because you know what? At 47, I still don’t know what to do. Why stick to one profession for your whole life? There’s so many things to discover; there’s so many things to learn. I’ve been in the fashion industry for all my life, but I’ve had the luxury to do different things in the fashion industry, like PR, marketing, and boutique buying. I’ve had that. 

Now, I’m learning. I’m really interested in gardening and I think the idea of sustainability really manifested into gardening for me. I’m learning every day about new plants, new flowers, and new ways to grow things. I don’t have to be one thing for the rest of my life, and that’s the awesome thing I’m discovering. So, don’t ever limit yourself. You can do everything.